[Green Flame] What Comes After Industrial Civilization?

[Green Flame] What Comes After Industrial Civilization?

Industrial civilization is killing the planet, and it’s not good for human beings either. But how can we live without it? We are dependent and addicted.

In this episode of The Green Flame, we ask what comes after industrial civilization and speak with Michel Jacobi, is an ecologist working in western Ukraine to preserve pastoral traditions and revive rare threatened breeds, including the ancient Carpathian water buffalo. He talks about using the animals as allies, in restoring the health of the land. Mitchel considers working with local people key to restoring the health of the land.

Michel learnt the local language from elderly people who also taught him how to breed cattle. Michel is 33 years old. He comes from Kiel, a city in northern Germany, situated near the Danish border. His parents have their own business, and his brother recently opened a factory. Michel studied forestry and ecology in Freiburg — a city near France and Switzerland — but did not want to stay and work in his own country.

— I thought that I could find ecological conditions that our ancestors shared because they don’t exist in Germany anymore. People should live closer to nature; this is what I want to demonstrate through my experience.

You can watch and listen more about the karpaten buffello here.

The second person we speak with for this episode is Lierre Keith, author of The Vegetarian Myth, Deep Green Resistance, Bright Green Lies, and more. You can find out more about Lierre’s work here. Lierre speaks about the impact of chemical fertilisers, the increase of human population and the need to face reality of the current situation.

Our song for this episode is “Wake Up Call” by Nicholas Tippins.
You can listen to this episode here:


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About The Green Flame

The Green Flame is a Deep Green Resistance podcast offering revolutionary analysis, skill sharing, and inspiration for the movement to save the planet by any means necessary. Our hosts are Max Wilbert and Jennifer Murnan.

[Green Flame] What Comes After Industrial Civilization?

The Green Flame: Domestication Of The Human Animal

Frank Forencich is an internationally-recognized expert on health and human adaptation. As an engaging speaker and movement teacher, he brings a unique perspective to the human predicament and offers practical solutions for some of the most pressing problems of our age. Frank is the author of several books on health and the human predicament, most recently The Sapience Curriculum. He is a black belt in karate and aikido.

From this episode:

I love this distinction [between humanity and culture] because a lot of people aren’t sure where to put the focus right now. I read a lot on, for example, New York Times. I read the various environmental, habitat destruction, climate stories that come out. I read the comment section. What I always see in the comment section are people talking about humanity as the problem. “Humans are a virus on the planet.” “Humans are a pathogen.” “Humans are cancer on the Earth.” Some people even say, “Humans are the asteroids that are causing this mass extinction event.” They put the focus on humanity. You could make that case, if you wanted to. The problem if you make that case is that you have got nowhere else to go. If humanity is the problem, why even get out of bed in the morning? That’s the end of the conversation. I prefer to put my focus on culture. There’s a good reason for this. There have been many human cultures throughout human history that have lived in rough harmony with the natural world. in ways that have been profoundly sustainable. We are fully capable of doing that. The big ?? there is us: the modern culture. That’s the place where we can do some work. That;s the place where activists, artists and teachers can do some work: to change the trajectory of the culture. Once we get clear on that distinction, then it makes our activism a lot more effective…

Indigenous people didn’t have a monopoly on wisdom. Certainly, there was plenty of bad behavior in the Paleo, we can be sure of that. But they did have a narrative. They did have a view. They did have something that we don’t have, which is a sense of humility and modesty. Most indigenous people seem to have that woven into their culture. They distrusted ego. They distrusted power. There is plenty of evidence that native people would act in concert to bring down egocentric individuals, and people who tried to exercise too much power. They mistrusted this and took action to level the hierarchy, and to live closer to the circular natural of life. That’s the lesson that we can take. That’s something that anybody could take.

Learn more about Frank here and here.

Our music for this episode is the track “Run Billy Run” by Dana Lyons.

[Green Flame] What Comes After Industrial Civilization?

Radical Discourse: A Critical Review of “The Shock Doctrine”

This episode of The Green Flame revolves around a group discussion ofNaomi Klein‘s 2007 book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. We discuss the points of the book that are on point, other areas where the book fails, and how in some ways Klein’s own analysis describes how her mainstream climate movement operates.

In this book, Klein describes the spread of neoconservatism (aka neoliberalism, in some cases), and how it has been facilitated by a deliberate strategy of “shock treatments.” The shock treatments, Klein argues, has always required dictatorship for enforcement. Also read an analysis of the book.

Our music for this episode is “Drag the Forests Down” by Foxpockets.

Resistance Radio – Guest: Joan Maloof

Resistance Radio – Guest: Joan Maloof

Resistance Radio – Guest: Joan Maloof

In this episode of resistance radio Derrick interviews Joan Maloof, who is a Professor Emeritus of biology and environmental studies at Salisbury University.

Joan founded the Old-Growth Forest Network to preserve, protect and promote the country’s few remaining stands of old-growth forest.

Joan spends her time lecturing, writing, visiting forests, assisting private landowners, and supporting local groups trying to protect community forests from development. She is the author of four books about trees and forests.

You can find the episode here.


You can listen to more incredibly informative RR episodes here.

Drawing the Line: Stopping the Murder of the Planet — Live Streaming Event November 22nd

Drawing the Line: Stopping the Murder of the Planet — Live Streaming Event November 22nd

Where do you draw the line? What is the threshold at which you will fight for the living planet? And how shall we fight?

This November 22nd, join Derrick Jensen, Lierre Keith, Chris Hedges, organizers from around the world, and guests for a special 4-hour live streaming event, Drawing the Line: Stopping the Murder of the Planet starting at 1pm Pacific time and hosted by Deep Green Resistance.

Event Program

This event will introduce you to on-the-ground campaigns being waged around the planet, introduce various strategies for effective organizing, rebut false solutions through readings of the forthcoming book Bright Green Lies: How the Environmental Movement Lost Its Way and What We Can Do About It, and discuss philosophy of resistance. There will be opportunities to ask questions and participate in dialogue during the event.

The mainstream environmental movement is funded mainly by foundations which don’t want foundational or revolutionary change. Radical organizations like Deep Green Resistance therefore rely on individual donors to support activism around the world, which is why Drawing the Line is also a fundraiser. We’re trying to raise funds to support global community organizing via our chapters, fund mutual aid and direct action campaigns, and make our core outreach and organizational work possible.

Whether or not you are in a financial position to donate, we hope you will join us on November 22nd for this event.

Save the Date

Leading Communities Of Resistance Course

Leading Communities Of Resistance Course

Our planet is dying. Earth is being killed, and we know the reason for it – industrial civilization. We need to resist the destruction, protect our land and life, and replace the toxic culture with land-based, just and sustainable forms. We need radical, alternative Communities.

Communities That Protect And Resist: CPR.

Such communities provide a fundamental unit of opposition, based on shared interests and identity, and/or a common landbase. Our resistance will be best served by wielding the power available to united collectives committed to each living members and all classes. The planet needs Protectors, Community Builders, and Community Leaders who commit to building cohesive collectives to resist toxicity and destruction and protect land and life.

Communities that Protect and Resist (CPR) – commissioned by DGR Asia-Pacific – is embarking on an effort to train, motivate and support activists to spread radical Community Building throughout the planet. Leading Communities of Resistance (LCOR) is a keystone development in that initiative.

We are inviting activists to enroll in this offering.

LCOR focuses on developing awareness, knowledge, values & skills, and confidence in activists who are or who want to be involved in building a Community that resists the dominant culture. We understand the critical role leadership plays in moving a Community to maturity and maintaining a committed collective through setbacks and challenges, internal and external.

The LCOR course is being offered to DGR members, allies, and others who are interested in organizing in their community. This is a 15 hours course, conducted via Zoom. The course will be offered in two different time slots (suitable for Asia-Pacific region and North American region).

Participants all across the world are encouraged to apply.

For more information, check out LCOR broucher.

To apply:

#1  Select the time slot most appropriate to you based on your location

#2 For North American time slot, send filled in application form to CPR, email it to ctpr@protonmail.com, or visit ctpr.home.blog

#3 For Asia-Pacific time slot, email your application to southasia@deepgreenresistance.org or visit asiapacific.deepgreenresistance.org

Featured image: via The Nation (CC BY-SA 4.0)